Meade Sued

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weixing
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Post by weixing »

Hi,
heh, to think just the optics without coatings, being sold as rc astrograph, isn't that a bigger misrepresentation than meade?[
Yes, it is without coating, but at least they tell you that it's is without coating. Meade advertised their RCX is a RC scope, but it is actually not a RC design. It's like a company selling battery powered watches, but advertised as a mechanical watches... they all tell time, but it is not the same.

Just my S$0.02...

Have a nice day.
Yang Weixing
:mrgreen: "The universe is composed mainly of hydrogen and ignorance." :mrgreen:
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kingkong
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Post by kingkong »

weixing,
could you please enlighten me:
what are the characteristics of the rc design?
why the rcx doesn't qualify?
what advantages would a rc-design scope offer that the rcx doesn't?
what would you suggest the rcx technology be called?
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ariefm71
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Post by ariefm71 »

what would you suggest the rcx technology be called?
aplanatic sct or advanced sct

Btw, coating of 10" mirror should cost less than a hundred buck usd. Actually this $1k real RC optics is a very attractive alternative if you're into imaging. The structure, like this http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/de ... _id=468610 , can probably made locally for less than S$1k. The total cost of the scope should be slightly higher than Vixen's VC200L (poor man's RC) and much less expensive than the VMC260L

Arief
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weixing
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Post by weixing »

Hi,
what are the characteristics of the rc design?
Basically, a R-C telescope uses hyperbolic primary and secondary mirrors to correct for spherical abberation and coma, offering a larger flat field. Hyperbolic mirror are expensive and difficult to make, so R-C telescope is very expensive.
why the rcx doesn't qualify?
RCX use a hyperbolic secondary mirror with a corrector lens and spherical primary mirror.
what advantages would a rc-design scope offer that the rcx doesn't?
I didn't see any reports on comparing the RCX and R-C, so can't really comment on this. But base on what I know, R-C produce a large, sharp flat field across the entire field... may be the ultimate photographic instrument... I wonder how RCX perform??
what would you suggest the rcx technology be called?
May be "MCT"... Meade Cassegrain Telescope... :P

Have a nice day.
Yang Weixing
:mrgreen: "The universe is composed mainly of hydrogen and ignorance." :mrgreen:
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Canopus Lim
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Post by Canopus Lim »

Maybe Meade should say 'performance like RC telescope' instead of saying theirs is RC telescope.
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kingkong
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Post by kingkong »

Canopus Lim wrote:Maybe Meade should say 'performance like RC telescope' instead of saying theirs is RC telescope.
this i can agree
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kingkong
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Post by kingkong »

weixing wrote:...Meade advertised their RCX is a RC scope, but it is actually not a RC design...
as i remembered meade never claim it to be "true RC, so i checked... this is what meade says in its website http://www.meade.com/rcx400/index.html :
The RCX Advanced Ritchey-Chrétien Optical System
It is generally accepted that the Ritchey-Chrétien or Classical RC system is the premiere optical design for medium to large aperture astronomical telescopes. The primary benefit of a Classical RC is the fact that it is an aplanatic design which means it is coma-free. Coma is an optical aberration that causes star images to appear comet like with tails that point away from the center of the field of view. The further from the center, the larger the effect. Fast Newtonians suffer from this aberration the most, followed by other reflecting optical systems of various designs. The Schmidt-Cassegrain or Schmidt-Newtonian design typically has ½ the coma of a Newtonian of the same focal length. The Classical RC design uses a hyperbolic primary mirror and a hyperbolic secondary mirror to create an aplanatic optical system which has no coma. This system produces small round star images all the way to the edge of the field of view.

Meade’s engineering team recognized the advantages of the Classical RC design but explored the possibility of using Meade’s unique engineering and manufacturing expertise to improve on the basic design. The result is the RCX optical system which is also an aplanatic, coma-free design with small round star images to the edge of the field. The RCX design is very similar to the Classical RC and achieves the same benefits by using a hyperbolic secondary with a new advanced front corrector plate and primary mirror that together perform as a hyperbolic primary. This design has several advantages over the Classical RC design.

The RCX eliminates the secondary mirror holder support vanes (spider) that cause diffraction spikes. Because almost all reflecting telescopes produce diffraction spikes, many people are used to seeing them and don’t consider them an aberration. But in reality, they are a large distortion that reduces image contrast, lowers resolution and presents an unrealistic view of the sky to the eye or the astro-imager.

The RCX design reduces the amount of astigmatism that is inherent in the Classical RC design.

The RCX, due to the front corrector plate, is a closed tube design. This keeps the primary optical components protected from dust, moisture and other contaminates that might fall on the optical surfaces of the primary and secondary mirrors.
While the RCX optical system is as difficult to manufacture as a Classical RC, it was chosen because of its superior performance (i.e., no diffractions spikes, reduced astigmatism and closed tube). Due to Meade's years of experience in designing and manufacturing sophisticated corrector plates and optical systems, we are in a position that very few, if any, other companies enjoy. Applying this expertise and Meade's resources, we are able to produce this advanced optical system at a fraction of the price that other companies would have to charge, if they could produce it at all.
note that it makes distinction between the RCX and the "classical" RC.

imho, star-instrument doesn't have a strong case... but if its aim is marketing than it has probably already achieved its goal.
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Canopus Lim
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Post by Canopus Lim »

I read the article from star-instrument. Basically they claim that Meade's RCX scope does not have the equivalent hyperbolic primary and secondary mirror. They claim that the combination of the corrector plus spherical primary is not equivalent to a hyperbolic mirror as in the classical RC; they took apart the Meade's telescope to do their own investigation of its mirror curvatures. From their 'simulation diagrams' using Zemax, I am rather sceptical of what they put up as the spot size is really ridiculously large even for a SCT. I think they blown it out of proportion.

I find that if Meade holds it statement true (that means its design of the corrector and spherical primary is equivalent to a hyperbolic mirror) then it is right in a sense that it acts like a RC or advance RC but easier to manufacture corrector plate plus spherical mirror to do it. The advantage of the Meade is that if its process in manufacturing is good, it can actually beat a classical RC. Optical design is one thing.. but execution is more important. By theory a Newtonian telescope on axis has superb resolution (better than SCT and other cassegrains), but in practise, not many manufacturers can figure a perfect parabolic mirror to achieve such a design optimum. It is the same for the classical RC. Its design seems good, but can the manufacturer figure TWO hyperbolic mirrors so accurately? Figuring a spherical mirror is much easier than an aspheric (non spherical eg. parabolic, ellipsoidal, hyperbolic etc) mirror.
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Post by Robin Lee »

weixing wrote:
what would you suggest the rcx technology be called?
May be "MCT"... Meade Cassegrain Telescope... :P

Have a nice day.
Isn't MCT referred to Maksutov Cassegrain Telescope? :wink:
Clear skies,
Robin.

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weixing
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Post by weixing »

Hi,
I think this is the question of how much changes in a design are needed before it is consider a different design.

IMHO, the main different is the corrector plate... a R-C telescope is still consider as a reflecting telescope, but a RCX will be consider as a catadioptric telescope due to the corrector plate, so can it still be consider as a R-C telescope?? For me, it is not a R-C telescope even if the corrector and spherical primary is equivalent to a hyperbolic mirror and give a similar or even better performance as a R-C telescope... I'll said it is a telescope of other design that give a R-C telescope performance. For example, you don't call an Off-axis Newtonian an APO telescope just because it perform like an APO telescope... :P :P.

Anyway, to "find bone in an egg", the RCX use a corrector plate which mean all wavelength of light will not focus on a same point, but a R-C telescope will.

Have a nice day.
Yang Weixing
:mrgreen: "The universe is composed mainly of hydrogen and ignorance." :mrgreen:
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